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Markone
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PostSubject: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 am

Hi all, hope you are all well
after recently passing my foundation, and getting a m7 call sign,i realised this was the easy part. I already have a yeasu ft450d,but which antenna to choose,wire.endfed or dipole, multiband vertical, use an eternal atu or just internal atu.
Would really like to hear from newly passed foundation licence holders about their choice of antennas and the pros and cons of their choices.
Just a bit more info on my QTH,i have a small garden and at a push fit a 20m 1/2 wave (10m) wire,horizontal,any thing longer and inverted V ?
Also have seen a thunderpole all band vertical,5.5m tall, is this not a 11m 1/2 wave with a balun or am i barking up the wrong tree, it cant be that simple can it?
thank you for taking the time to read this post
Merry Christmas to you all  santa
regards
mark
26ct3433

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 12:05 pm

Congratulations on the pass.
Not long done mine (17-11-20)and had the same problem.
I had the ft450d as well and i had a endfed long wire with a 9.1 unun but never had much luck with it.
So i bought the Sigma SE-HF360 and put it up and it worked.
I then decided to test the 9.1 unun so i took it down but on opening it to me it didn't look right so i cut all the wire off and re-made it.
Put it up and what a surprise i got.
Only have a small garden so the wire is only 10 meters long going from around 3mtr to around 4.5mtr and surrounded by other houses.
Well Friday just gone i got into both North and South America on it.
I run it through a MFJ-993B tuner job done just thinking of extending the wire now.

Edit,,, Don't get me wrong the HF360 works but not used it for any local yet but i think it might be better for that.


Last edited by Alan Pilot on Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:22 am; edited 2 times in total

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 12:10 pm

This unun looks ok well made but the moonraker one i had (a gift last xmas) didn't look right so i remade like this one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ham-Radio-Special-Offer-Compact-Sota-unun-9-1-300-watts-type-61-core-Longwire/133603613829?hash=item1f1b655c85:g:bmEAAOSwpqJfzgBP

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STARSHIP
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 3:53 pm

This can be a can of worms Mark..
First question you should answer what band do you want to work and how much antenna room do you have?
Once you have answered people maybe able to offer advice.
73
Mark.

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Markone
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 7:42 pm

hi Alan thanks for taking time to read my post.it seems like your 10m wire is doing a good job, do you only use it on 20m or will it tune to other bands?
hi mark only have a small garden as stated in my post,i really started this post out of interest to how newly licence amateurs have tackled the can of worms and there experience's
regards
mark

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 7:50 pm

Yes it tunes on other bands it's just 20m has been busy and a bit on 40m.
I started a post asking for ideas on changing the length to 20 meters of wire but not having much luck.
Think the 20 meter length might work better on 80m as don't hear much on there.
Been around radio on and off since the late 70s but this 9.1 unun and a 10 meter length of wire was a big surprise to me.(well after i re-made the unun)...

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John123
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeMon Dec 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Congratulations on passing your foundation, Mark.👍

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walt
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSat Dec 19, 2020 4:10 am

Congrats Mark. Like so many others here, I love CB and I am also a HAM (Foundation ~ 2 yrs)
I had the same issue re antennas - also, I live in a listed rented house and am not allowed to stick up any large antennas - even a long wire would be bloody tricky.

So I started reading about 'stealth antennas', and specifically the performance of compact 'Magnetic loops'.

I bought one, and still use it today - plus it's still working away on the bloody upstairs landing - I haven’t got around to putting it on a small rotator and putting it in the loft yet.

That said, it's pretty impressive. It's about 1.5m diameter and will tune to 20m (~14Mhz) and even down to 40m (~7Mhz). It takes a few minutes to tune, they have a very high Q, so tuning must be done carefully - but you don't need a costly loop tuner - just a good ear, and a decent SWR meter.  (If you take out 2 of it's short aluminium sections you can just about use it as a 27Mhz / 28Mhz (11/10m) Mag loop!

Importantly, the model I bought has a remote tuning motor installed, with a flying lead and a simple control box. Get the remote tune version!! In my view it's a god send - saves so much hassle and you can mount the loop away from the shack, and tune it up from the comfort of your chair. (Mag Loops also generate very high voltages, so you really don't want to be too near it when you’re transmitting!!

I hugely recommend this loop, it got me on the air so quickly with minimal fuss and expense.
I am going to experiment with other antenna types, but this has already got me contacts all across Europe, down to the Turkish border, the African coast, and even one contact in the Caribbean. Not bad for a hoolahoop of aluminium on the landing!

Here's the link (see what you think):
https://www.g4tph.com/onlineshop/prod_2668463-ML40HP-MK11-Remote-Tune-Magloop.html

There's a pic of it on my QRZ page too (I really must get it in the loft!):
https://www.qrz.com/db/M6WDV

Good luck! - catch you on the air.
73's
Al
CT2934 / M6WDV

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Alan - Mirror Man
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSat Dec 19, 2020 7:38 pm

Hello Mark

Well done on your pass many of us are biting the bullet and giving it a go and with good results I am pleased to say.
I looked into stealth antennas myself after a neighbour moaning about my half wave vertical for 11m but I am glad they did or I may not have perused the stealth option.

I chose a wire doublet (dipole with ladder line feeder) the ZX6BKW and after making up a batch of plastic insulators from a broken bucket I fitted it in the loft in as well balanced a fashion as I could. After a bit of trimming the SWR came down and it resonates on several bands 6m though 40m and I can tune it up for 80m and it seems fairly good performance there even but it is it's recent DX performance I am especially pleased with.

I knew this option would be a compromise or felt it would at least but working 20m and 40m which have become my main haunts, for now at least, I have been making some surprisingly good contacts with Brazil being added to my list just a couple of days ago at over 5000 miles, prior to that I had StateSide, Canada and Russia all under my belt.

I am so pleased with the performance in the loft I am going to add another antenna a OCFD FD4 (Fritzel) this resonates on 40m and 80m but I can modify it replacing the shorter 12.5 m leg with a 57.5m one, losing the lower bands covered by the doublet and getting it to resonate on 80m and 160m. That's my next project anyway, I just need another roll of wire for the extended leg and it's full steam ahead although I am going to set it up and get it working as standard before modifying it.

Anyway, good luck with whatever option you go with and please keep us updated as I for one love to hear about these projects as I am sure others do to!

73's

Alan

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2020 12:03 am

Quick query Alan. Your mention of the ZX6BKW doublet has got me thinking. It's overall length is ~93 odd feet. How do you fit it in / arrange it in your loft space? Or do you have a massive loft?
Cheers
Walt
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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2020 10:06 am

Not newly passed but I can remember what I did when I first passed. 

I built a 20m dipole and put it up as an inverted V. Dead easy to do, it's not massive and you'll get to both hear and work plenty of countries.

Also having a small garden I then moved on to an inverted L, again home made. With this I used a SGC230 antenna coupler to connect the base of it to my radio. That allowed me to use it on every band from 160m to 10m. Whilst the SGC230 is a bit pricey there's a cheaper SGC237 (1ooW maximum, can be powered by a battery) and there's the CG3000 and Icom AH4 which work similarly.

With an antenna coupler you can just throw up as long a wire as you can get, chuck another few across the floor for a RF ground and you're good to go on all bands.

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2020 12:17 pm

walt wrote:
Quick query Alan. Your mention of the ZX6BKW doublet has got me thinking. It's overall length is ~93 odd feet. How do you fit it in / arrange it in your loft space? Or do you have a massive loft?
Cheers
Walt


I have included an image from another page on the same topic, it is, in part at least, where I took my inspiration from.  When the two legs run out of room at the end of the loft, I have run the wire up around just over a metre and brought it back on itself, and from the information, I have been able to gather from others there is little or no loss in performance by doing so. 
 
The plastic insulators keep the wire away from the roof joists I have tuned it without any difficulty I am pleased to say and its performance exceeds what I was expecting that is why I am going to do something similar with the off-centre fed dipole which would probably run around the loft three times once modified for 160m but once again as in the diagram I will keep the two legs apart dedicating a side of the loft to each running it neatly back and forth to take up the length.

Fingers crossed I will repeat the success I have had with the doublet as nobody is more surprised than I am by the results I have been getting, it just goes to show a well-tuned antenna on the band you are working makes all the difference I feel.
I looked at the magnetic loop mentioned in the thread and would definitely like to give one a try in the future as I am hearing some very good reports about them too but for now I have enough to be tinkering with over the next few weeks.newly licenced Downlo16


Last edited by Alan - Mirror Man on Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:20 pm; edited 2 times in total

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2020 12:19 pm

This is really helpful info - thanks Alan. Long wire in the loft or tuned doublet - decisions decisions. I do take your point however about one good resonant antenna for one job as is were. Many thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeTue Dec 22, 2020 12:17 pm

hi to you all.
thanks for the nice words of encouragement and everybody who as made a post. After reading internet reviews on antennas until the words just blending in to one, I have made a decision.
after taking everything into consideration:
already have 5/8 gainmaster
small garden
cost
a house with a gable end and a tree at bottom of garden
my choice is the gwhip 421 triband endfed wire,looks a quality product and really could not find a negative review anywhere.so the order is in and hopefully my January project(IN LOCKDOWN)?
I will keep you informed and give an honest review on the install and quality and of course any contacts
please stay safe and have a good Christmas
mark 26ct3433

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeThu Dec 24, 2020 11:44 am

Looks good - let us know how it goes, and how it performs Mark.
All best & have a good crimble.
Walt

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 8:46 pm

For small gardens.
A solution for your favourite bands:
Spiral loop antennas:
https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/frank_radio_antenna_SM0VPO.htm

Also, if you enjoy 20m DX, build yourself a compact beam such as a Moxon, which will offer up to 5db gain (over double effective power in the radiated direction).
Your 10W will go further.

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PostSubject: Re: newly licenced   newly licenced Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 9:26 pm

Ah, also;
Regarding long wires and inverted L types, if you are using an UnUn (9:1 etc) you will achieve a far better pattern if you run several wire radials from the ground of the UnUn and fan these out under or ontop of your lawn (a few inches under is fine if you wish to bury them. I do). Radials are preferable to a single earth spike as you create a better “mirror” for your signal, rather than relying on the ground itself, which is very lossy and varies with soil type and saturation. I run mine along the same path as the overhead horizontal section, ~4” under the lawn in a fan pattern. I have six. Do as many as is practical for you. I recommend at least 4, and you can vary the length if needed. Don’t worry if you can’t get a symmetrical shape or be directly under the horizontal; I find it makes no difference.
Another option is to run a single one above ground following (and the same length as) the overhead section. (This is often referred to as a “single wire counterpoise”).
I have a 20m long L, fed 1m from the ground, rising up 5 1/2 m, then horizontal for the rest. The coax travels from the house to the end of the garden 6” under the lawn, up to a 1:1 choke, then to the UnUn.
If you can angle the long sides of the horizontal to face SE / NW ish you will hit Europe and USA on 20m daytime during good propagation days, no problem. Clear sunny days are fantastic from 10:00 until 15:00 at time of writing.
For new M7’s, who want some worldwide contacts, then daytime 20m is for you. (You won’t hear each other, but will hear the overseas, such is the nature of 20m.....)
A mix of afternoon EU and local chat, 40m.
Local evening chit-chats, 80m.
Late evening “Down-the-pub” get together nets, 160m.

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