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Grounding base station; Advice in grounds
Topic Started: Friday, 12. January 2018, 01:23 (737 Views)
Dipolestaffs
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I have a radio now fed by a (totally over the top) 40amp toroidal power supply.

The antenna feed is via a two way switch out to a 1/2 wave horizontal dipole and a half wave vertical dipole mounted on a steel pole with the centre feed at the edges of the house.

I stumbled upon a 1/2 wave end fed vertical skip master antenna today which I intend to replace the vertical dipole with either at eves height or on 9" pole at the bottom of the garden.
The only meaningful ground here is via the power supply...


Do I need to do more? (Thinking RF and possibly lightening), I do have a large tree at the bottom of the garden.....
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Northern Crusader
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26 Charlie Tango 1760

Each antenna needs a RF choke on the feedline as close to the feedpoint (antenna socket) as possible. Keep the coax feeds to the antennas away from the steel pipe otherwise you defeat the purpose of the RF chokes.

Shouldn't need to do anything else other than that.
26CT1760 / M0GVZ
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Dipolestaffs
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When you say RF choke what precisely do you mean, air wound? That's what I have on the dipoles to act as a balun, I was under the impression (probably) wrongly that wasn't needed on a vertical dear to it being unbalanced anyway?
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Nik Gnashers
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26 Charlie Tango 573

A 'proper' choke, is a 1:1 balun, and I am going to assume this is what Conor is referring to.

An 'air choke' is not quite as effective, but it does work to a certain extent, and is obviously a lot cheaper !
You probably already know this, an 'air choke' needs to be the correct number of turns, around a correct diameter former, in order for it to be effective at your chosen frequency.
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[imgw=150]http://i.imgur.com/RJjZCOw.jpg[/imgw]
All CT members are expected to use good operating procedure, good manners, and be friendly...Please do not chat on any calling frequencies, or use bad language on air, thank you it is appreciated.
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Northern Crusader
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26 Charlie Tango 1760

Spot on Nik.

For 11m to make an air wound one you need 5 turns of RG213 or RG58 on a 4.25" core. I personally would go for 8 turns of RG58 on a FT240-61 toroid as it is resistive choking and wider bandwidth. With the air chokes the choking is reactive and narrow banded. Get it wrong and because it is reactive it can actually make things worse and increase common mode RFI.

Courtesy of Steve Hunt G3TXQ:

Posted Image
Edited by Northern Crusader, Sunday, 14. January 2018, 21:09.
26CT1760 / M0GVZ
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Dipolestaffs
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Thanks guys I have five turn 4.25" air chokes on everything.

Put the skip master up today on a temporary 2 MTR pole ( not enough I know, but I wanted to play with placement to sample how much RF noise I was seeing).

I think I am concluding 11mtr just is pointless, all I can hear is people within about 5 miles of me with whatever antenna due to having ground 150m higher than me within a couple of miles each way - I thought ssb might be interesting but it appears no one uses the mid block or am or FM or ssb :'( - I actually went mobile one evening to said high ground which has about a 50+ mile visual horizon....still no ssb or mid block.....

The delights of local ch19......well not much ( and part of all this was practical physics for my teenage daughters......ch19 isn't really the appropriate....)

Do I just forget it or go the ham route.....time to see if there's any point in that I guess......

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26DA75
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Hi Patrick,

I know Biddulph so I know your in a fair old dip where you live. But your not short of near-by high ground either! Going portable is as much when as where you go these days and while Mid-band SSB is not buzzing 24/7 I think you might be supprised/amazed by the stations you'll hear if you could get yourself up Mow Cop on Wednesday evenings between say 6pm-9pm. There should be 3 or 4 nets running on SSB on Mid-block and the FM net on ch28 muppet block, and from Mow Cop you should be able to work all of us with any reasonable set-up. Freq to look for are.

Mid-week Net. 7-9pm 27.255 USB (ch23mids) (with Martin DA022 & myself Tom DA75 in the chair).
Eastern Counties Net 6:30-9pm 27.345 USB (ch34 mids) (with Richard FI420 & Justin FI242)
North East Net. 7-9pm 27.375 USB (Ch37 mids) (With Ozzy LR056)
North West Net. 7-9pm 27.125 USB (Ch14 mids) with Roy UK873)First & last Wed of the month!

and the CT lads on ch28 UKFM 7-9pm, Not sure who chairs this net currantly but I'm sure someone here will know.

Also on Thursday nights you Now have two SSB nets running on Mid-band

The South-east net 9-10pm on 27.395 (ch39 mids) (with Ray CT2290 & Tim CT2116)
and the new East-Mids net (7-9pm) on 27.255 (Ch23 mids) (with Stuart CT2652)

on Sundays there's two nets running
the Delta Romeo net 12-2pm on 27.365 USB.

and the Daddy of them all, Sids Net on Ch34 UKFM. 2-4pm

Its not like the old days where things where busy all the time but if you know where and when to look theres plenty of regular activity on 11m radio freq and some great groundwave contacts to be made! hope to catch you soon on the band mate.

73, Tom
Edited by 26DA75, Monday, 15. January 2018, 12:10.
Call CQ Because on radio nobody can hear you listening!!
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Dipolestaffs
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Unfortunately I can't do a Wednesday night, I did try Sunday on from home and....nothing....

I just don't get why after years of wanting ssb it's dead, back in the pre uk40. Days am sideband was ...aledgedly... Jumping

Tried mowcop last week and although I could hear a few people on uk40 mids and ssb were like a graveyard.. those who I could hear seemed to be interested in talking to their mate down the road using about 300w.....got not one response on calls all over the place...and I know I get out ok....

The calling channels are full of people chatting/playing music/playing swear words on loops rather than moving off to another channel, honestly people were far better behaved pre legalisation.

It's a crying shame, j only came back once I found out am/ssb was back up so dx'ing seemed possible...I don't get it do people not realise if it's not used it will be taken away?

Going to look at getting a ham license as hopefully people actually want to use radio as a hobby and learn rather than talk down the street and use. 300w burner that bleeds all over the place to do it....


Sorry off topic for aerials anyway.....and thanks for the suggestions.


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Nik Gnashers
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26 Charlie Tango 573

The Ham route is always a good option.

When the solar cycle is really at it lowest, next year, there will still be 'some' activity for dx, on 160m, and 80m bands, and maybe even on 40m and possibly 20m too.

You can still use 11m if/when we get a bit of freak skip.
M6GFT ::: QRZ Page- http://www.qrz.com/db/M6GFT
[imgw=150]http://i.imgur.com/RJjZCOw.jpg[/imgw]
All CT members are expected to use good operating procedure, good manners, and be friendly...Please do not chat on any calling frequencies, or use bad language on air, thank you it is appreciated.
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Smokey Jay
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Nik Gnashers
Tuesday, 16. January 2018, 16:59
The Ham route is always a good option.

When the solar cycle is really at it lowest, next year, there will still be 'some' activity for dx, on 160m, and 80m bands, and maybe even on 40m and possibly 20m too.

You cans till use 11m if/when we get a bit of freak skip.
Aprils not that far away, and you can fill you boots with sporadic e, with 59+30db for a few months,!
Lets keep our chins up, chaps!
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AlphaPapa
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26 Charlie Tango 2966

Patrick, A Youtuber named TRX Bench, has done a pretty useful series of videos on baluns, even if he does pronounce it as balloons. I warn you though, it does take a while. :bash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMlKfHHR8FY
Edited by AlphaPapa, Sunday, 4. March 2018, 08:57.
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AlphaPapa
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26 Charlie Tango 2966

In particular in the 2nd video in the series he shows a design for a 1:1 torroidal balun that gives a SWR no higher than 1:1.2 over the frequency range of 1mhz-50mhz when loaded on the antenna side at 50 ohms. The common mode attenuation is what really impressed me.
Edited by AlphaPapa, Sunday, 4. March 2018, 09:58.
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thefinnster
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29 Charlie Tango 041

26DA75
Monday, 15. January 2018, 12:02
Hi Patrick,

I know Biddulph so I know your in a fair old dip where you live. But your not short of near-by high ground either! Going portable is as much when as where you go these days and while Mid-band SSB is not buzzing 24/7 I think you might be supprised/amazed by the stations you'll hear if you could get yourself up Mow Cop on Wednesday evenings between say 6pm-9pm. There should be 3 or 4 nets running on SSB on Mid-block and the FM net on ch28 muppet block, and from Mow Cop you should be able to work all of us with any reasonable set-up. Freq to look for are.

Mid-week Net. 7-9pm 27.255 USB (ch23mids) (with Martin DA022 & myself Tom DA75 in the chair).
Eastern Counties Net 6:30-9pm 27.345 USB (ch34 mids) (with Richard FI420 & Justin FI242)
North East Net. 7-9pm 27.375 USB (Ch37 mids) (With Ozzy LR056)
North West Net. 7-9pm 27.125 USB (Ch14 mids) with Roy UK873)First & last Wed of the month!

and the CT lads on ch28 UKFM 7-9pm, Not sure who chairs this net currantly but I'm sure someone here will know.

Also on Thursday nights you Now have two SSB nets running on Mid-band

The South-east net 9-10pm on 27.395 (ch39 mids) (with Ray CT2290 & Tim CT2116)
and the new East-Mids net (7-9pm) on 27.255 (Ch23 mids) (with Stuart CT2652)

on Sundays there's two nets running
the Delta Romeo net 12-2pm on 27.365 USB.

and the Daddy of them all, Sids Net on Ch34 UKFM. 2-4pm

Its not like the old days where things where busy all the time but if you know where and when to look theres plenty of regular activity on 11m radio freq and some great groundwave contacts to be made! hope to catch you soon on the band mate.

73, Tom
Very good and encouraging reply from you Tom. It's exactly the response that someone whose losing heart needs. Of course, it may only be something simple or a minor adjustment that Patrick needs,to get his signal out but it's good to know that that help is around. Good stuff. :cheers: 29CT041
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