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Smart Meters; QRM
Topic Started: Tuesday, 27. October 2015, 13:07 (801 Views)
Staffy 48
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Went to the local radio club last night and when talking to another member, (an electrical engineer) I brought up the QRM problem that seems to be on the rise amongst operators, more so on 11metres, from PLT's and plasma TV's, he asked if I had a smart meter, unusual question I thought, I said yes and he said that a lot of QRM is caused by the smart meters, not directly I may add, but if someone in your lo'cal also has a smart meter, and a lot do, if any of your neighbours have PLT's and are on the same electrical phase as you, this QRM from the PLT's can back flow and enter your electrical system, why?, because there is no physical way of stopping it because the flow of electricity into your premises is monitored and recorded electronically, whereas the old meters consist of a heavily wound magnet with a disc that is driven by the magnet, the more power you use the faster the disc travels and mechanically moves the numerical read out dials, so what you may ask?, well this coil inside the meter acts in a similar way to an air coil/balun which will prevent RF coming back down the coax and into your rig, these spurious emissions created by the PLT's are after all are a form of RF interference and because of the coil inside the old meters are prevented from back feeding into your electrical system, quite logical when you think about it, but I must admit I would never have thought about it in a million years.

I'd thought about getting a mains filter but that thought will now be a reality, I've seen them for sale on the 'net for around £30 and have about 6 outlets on them so you can filter all your mains fed radio equipment in the Shack, well it will cover my gear but I realise some of you may need more than one filter. :whistle:
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Nubster
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26 Charlie Tango 050

I was thinking about getting one of those mains filters Pat also , but the £30 bit put me off in a way wondering will it work , dont fancy wasting £30 and the noise is still there :( , but now reading your post I'm in two minds now what to do , mind you living in a built up area in London where I am dont help I normally now switch on the radio if I got more that 5db of noise I may as well switch off anyway

Life is too short, so ave a laugh now n then never know you might like it
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Nik Gnashers
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26 Charlie Tango 573

Interesting Pat, thanks for posting.
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All CT members are expected to use good operating procedure, good manners, and be friendly...Please do not chat on any calling frequencies, or use bad language on air, thank you it is appreciated.
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Staffy 48
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Nubster
Tuesday, 27. October 2015, 20:56
I was thinking about getting one of those mains filters Pat also , but the £30 bit put me off in a way wondering will it work , dont fancy wasting £30 and the noise is still there :( , but now reading your post I'm in two minds now what to do , mind you living in a built up area in London where I am dont help I normally now switch on the radio if I got more that 5db of noise I may as well switch off anyway
Nubster, the QRM I receive varies from an S5 to S8.5 and I get a continuous noise akin to an unsuppressed petrol engine which comes across even the strongest stations, most annoying to say the least, so I've got to try a mains filter for peace of mind, you never know it may just work
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razor36
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are these what you mean ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tacima-CS947-6-Way-UK-Mains-Conditioner-Surge-Protection-Interference-Filter-2M-/201005235521?hash=item2eccd87d41:g:uPwAAOSwEeFVQjq0
M0LSG
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Northern Crusader
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26 Charlie Tango 1760

razor36
Wednesday, 28. October 2015, 13:36
They won't do a damned thing other than stop the wiring between the socket and the appliance plugged into it radiating the PLT noise. The PLT noise is radiated by the mains wiring in the house and in the street because the meter is transmitting back to the supplier by that wiring. That is picked up by the antenna and fed into the receiver.

The other thing to address is the claim about the coil in the old analogue meters. No it didn't work like that at all. Analogue meters didn't cause any issues because any emissions were at VLF. The coil didn't do anything to prevent RFI and a rudimentary understanding of electronics would be suffice to know that.

A solution does exist and second hand it'll cost you around £100, new £200. The MFJ 1026 Noise Canceller.
26CT1760 / M0GVZ
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26PS001
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26 Charlie Tango 1523

Ive had our gas supplier on the phone lots of times wanting to arrange a date and time to fit these smart meters, Ive refused everytime. Im sure they are small transmitters so bound to give off something that could interfere.

Ive asked them for a copy of the EMC tests and just waffled on and they didnt have a clue what I was talking about, neither did I hahaha but it sounded good and every time they have said ok its fine hehehehe.

Im lucky as I dont get problems and dont want them either
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Staffy 48
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razor36
Wednesday, 28. October 2015, 13:36
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Staffy 48
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Staffy 48
Wednesday, 28. October 2015, 22:57
Yes, those are the ones Glynn :thumb:
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Staffy 48
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Northern Crusader
Wednesday, 28. October 2015, 14:16
razor36
Wednesday, 28. October 2015, 13:36
They won't do a damned thing other than stop the wiring between the socket and the appliance plugged into it radiating the PLT noise. The PLT noise is radiated by the mains wiring in the house and in the street because the meter is transmitting back to the supplier by that wiring. That is picked up by the antenna and fed into the receiver.

The other thing to address is the claim about the coil in the old analogue meters. No it didn't work like that at all. Analogue meters didn't cause any issues because any emissions were at VLF. The coil didn't do anything to prevent RFI and a rudimentary understanding of electronics would be suffice to know that.

A solution does exist and second hand it'll cost you around £100, new £200. The MFJ 1026 Noise Canceller.
I take you've tried one of the mains filters then Conor? As for the MFJ, having to retune every time you change frequency is not my cup of tea. I'm well aware of how PLT's work. And I take it that you have absolute proof that the analogue meters can't prevent RFI entering your electrical system, no I thought not! next you'll be telling me air coils in the coax don't work either in preventing RF coming back into the shack.
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landyman
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Like all things there is no yes or no answer to many of the rf /plt interference some of us experience.
Some can be received by the antenna if your a mobile station like me driving past my local harvester wipes my radio out with total crap and any one living next to any place that causes that amount of interference there is no hope but move house to the country side.
If its inside your own house caused by your own electrical equipment then you can find it and deal with it
Weather its antenna received or directly through your mains system .
Sadly i think most of the interference is antenna received from outside our homes and this is the hardest to overcome.
Found this site about different mains wiring interference .
good luck to any one trying to sort any type of interference and be warned christmas is coming up soon
with all those led drivers driving those flashing led lights i could here those clicking and pulsing last year.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul03/articles/mainsproblems.asp
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Nubster
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26 Charlie Tango 050

Staffy 48
Tuesday, 27. October 2015, 21:58
Nubster
Tuesday, 27. October 2015, 20:56
I was thinking about getting one of those mains filters Pat also , but the £30 bit put me off in a way wondering will it work , dont fancy wasting £30 and the noise is still there :( , but now reading your post I'm in two minds now what to do , mind you living in a built up area in London where I am dont help I normally now switch on the radio if I got more that 5db of noise I may as well switch off anyway
Nubster, the QRM I receive varies from an S5 to S8.5 and I get a continuous noise akin to an unsuppressed petrol engine which comes across even the strongest stations, most annoying to say the least, so I've got to try a mains filter for peace of mind, you never know it may just work
My noise level can be the same Pat between 5 /9 db sometimes, I seem to get it on the higher bands for some reason IE: 27:415 to 27:855 so inc the T5 sometimes trying to do any DXing on the T5 is impossible, mids is not as bad but it can be, I also get that continuous noise like a unsuppressed engine now and then but I do live near a dual carriageway so maybe thats what it is when I get it , all I know is I lived at my house for over 20 year now and when we first moved here I never got hardly any noise or interference on my radio but as time has gone on its got worse around my way

Life is too short, so ave a laugh now n then never know you might like it
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Staffy 48
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Nubster
Thursday, 29. October 2015, 14:11
Staffy 48
Tuesday, 27. October 2015, 21:58
Nubster
Tuesday, 27. October 2015, 20:56
I was thinking about getting one of those mains filters Pat also , but the £30 bit put me off in a way wondering will it work , dont fancy wasting £30 and the noise is still there :( , but now reading your post I'm in two minds now what to do , mind you living in a built up area in London where I am dont help I normally now switch on the radio if I got more that 5db of noise I may as well switch off anyway
Nubster, the QRM I receive varies from an S5 to S8.5 and I get a continuous noise akin to an unsuppressed petrol engine which comes across even the strongest stations, most annoying to say the least, so I've got to try a mains filter for peace of mind, you never know it may just work
My noise level can be the same Pat between 5 /9 db sometimes, I seem to get it on the higher bands for some reason IE: 27:415 to 27:855 so inc the T5 sometimes trying to do any DXing on the T5 is impossible, mids is not as bad but it can be, I also get that continuous noise like a unsuppressed engine now and then but I do live near a dual carriageway so maybe thats what it is when I get it , all I know is I lived at my house for over 20 year now and when we first moved here I never got hardly any noise or interference on my radio but as time has gone on its got worse around my way
I've been informed that the most likely cause of the un-suppressed a engine noise is most likely caused by a nearby plasma T.V. :censor:
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Nubster
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26 Charlie Tango 050

I've got plenty of neighbours with those plasma T.V's around me :headbang:

Life is too short, so ave a laugh now n then never know you might like it
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Nik Gnashers
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26 Charlie Tango 573

Plenty of info here - http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/

You can legally refuse a smart meter.
M6GFT ::: QRZ Page- http://www.qrz.com/db/M6GFT
[imgw=150]http://i.imgur.com/RJjZCOw.jpg[/imgw]
All CT members are expected to use good operating procedure, good manners, and be friendly...Please do not chat on any calling frequencies, or use bad language on air, thank you it is appreciated.
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26PS001
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26 Charlie Tango 1523

Nik Gnashers
Saturday, 7. November 2015, 12:57
Plenty of info here - http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/

You can legally refuse a smart meter.
Correct, Ive done it lots of times now
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Charlie Tango member 26CT1523 since 12/11/14
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Jape
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26 Charlie Tango 1894

Nik Gnashers
Saturday, 7. November 2015, 12:57
Plenty of info here - http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/

You can legally refuse a smart meter.
I refused a smart meter and still have a standard one I don't have anything labelled with the word 'smart'. What they mean by smart is 'spy and control'.

It's interference in more ways than one.....
Edited by Jape, Saturday, 7. November 2015, 13:46.
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