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High angle radiation at 10-12M band ?
Topic Started: Monday, 14. September 2015, 10:23 (438 Views)
RadioDaze
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if there is no ionization such as in a post aurora/solar flare situation does some of this 10-12M RF radiation literally pass through the atmosphere and into space for infinity ? If you had a lobe above your antenna would that go straight out ?

Or does anything absorb it?
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Phil busta bus
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Yes I think it does keep going. Been reading up on NV of late and it seems quite a clever way of dx ING short distance when ground wave isn't working. Have you ever tried doing this Jeff?
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RadioDaze
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Phil busta bus
Monday, 14. September 2015, 20:37
Yes I think it does keep going. Been reading up on NV of late and it seems quite a clever way of dx ING short distance when ground wave isn't working. Have you ever tried doing this Jeff?
I haven't no, interesting thought though.. get it over the horizon on a patch of ionization close to or directly above your QTH if you were lucky. Might be a bit weird having your vertical mounted as a diagonal or near horizontal polarized antenna.... not sure what that would do the the radiation pattern other than a lot of wasted energy firing into the ground. You sure would be firing it into free space up there.
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Phil busta bus
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RadioDaze
Tuesday, 15. September 2015, 12:58
Phil busta bus
Monday, 14. September 2015, 20:37
Yes I think it does keep going. Been reading up on NV of late and it seems quite a clever way of dx ING short distance when ground wave isn't working. Have you ever tried doing this Jeff?
I haven't no, interesting thought though.. get it over the horizon on a patch of ionization close to or directly above your QTH if you were lucky. Might be a bit weird having your vertical mounted as a diagonal or near horizontal polarized antenna.... not sure what that would do the the radiation pattern other than a lot of wasted energy firing into the ground. You sure would be firing it into free space up there.
Cud try using a beam. See I've got this problem. Me and a lad off here are trying to make a breakthrough dx to each other of around 85 miles. It's both from our respective home locations, Using AM as the medium on 11 meters. Problem is there's a dam good stretch of hills right in the way, the peak district. Ground waves more or less a no go, so I'm looking at different approaches using horizontal patterns. What you think?.
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RadioDaze
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Phil busta bus
Tuesday, 15. September 2015, 13:09
RadioDaze
Tuesday, 15. September 2015, 12:58
Phil busta bus
Monday, 14. September 2015, 20:37
Yes I think it does keep going. Been reading up on NV of late and it seems quite a clever way of dx ING short distance when ground wave isn't working. Have you ever tried doing this Jeff?
I haven't no, interesting thought though.. get it over the horizon on a patch of ionization close to or directly above your QTH if you were lucky. Might be a bit weird having your vertical mounted as a diagonal or near horizontal polarized antenna.... not sure what that would do the the radiation pattern other than a lot of wasted energy firing into the ground. You sure would be firing it into free space up there.
Cud try using a beam. See I've got this problem. Me and a lad off here are trying to make a breakthrough dx to each other of around 85 miles. It's both from our respective home locations, Using AM as the medium on 11 meters. Problem is there's a dam good stretch of hills right in the way, the peak district. Ground waves more or less a no go, so I'm looking at different approaches using horizontal patterns. What you think?.
Not certain as I do not have much experience with beams. (None would be accurate !) It might be doable you will lose quite a bit of general noise by both going horizontal and of course have much much greater gain where you point it... both of you get 7-8dBd forward TX and RX gain at each end with just a 3 element horizontal.

I would be surprised if you could not make it through with a beam both ends.

I am not sure if there is any propagation differences between horizontal plane and vertical through when trying to find gaps between hills.

One thing is that low beams have a "bad" take off angle (which might just be a help in this situation as it might send energy over the hilltop as opposed to into it's side and the arrival angle of a low beam on RX will be similar.)

Some things to consider.
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Phil busta bus
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RadioDaze
Wednesday, 16. September 2015, 09:48
Phil busta bus
Tuesday, 15. September 2015, 13:09
RadioDaze
Tuesday, 15. September 2015, 12:58

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Cud try using a beam. See I've got this problem. Me and a lad off here are trying to make a breakthrough dx to each other of around 85 miles. It's both from our respective home locations, Using AM as the medium on 11 meters. Problem is there's a dam good stretch of hills right in the way, the peak district. Ground waves more or less a no go, so I'm looking at different approaches using horizontal patterns. What you think?.
Not certain as I do not have much experience with beams. (None would be accurate !) It might be doable you will lose quite a bit of general noise by both going horizontal and of course have much much greater gain where you point it... both of you get 7-8dBd forward TX and RX gain at each end with just a 3 element horizontal.

I would be surprised if you could not make it through with a beam both ends.

I am not sure if there is any propagation differences between horizontal plane and vertical through when trying to find gaps between hills.

One thing is that low beams have a "bad" take off angle (which might just be a help in this situation as it might send energy over the hilltop as opposed to into it's side and the arrival angle of a low beam on RX will be similar.)

Some things to consider.
Thankyou. Plenty to think about there. Posting the guy a double bazzoka soon, an exact replica of mine. Think these might work :thumb:
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RadioDaze
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Has to be worth a try, it keeps things interesting I now have a head scratcher going on as well. :doh2: But it keeps us going and experimenting/testing and making the best of our set ups.
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Phil busta bus
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RadioDaze
Thursday, 17. September 2015, 09:41
Has to be worth a try, it keeps things interesting I now have a head scratcher going on as well. :doh2: But it keeps us going and experimenting/testing and making the best of our set ups.
Most important thing is to remain positive. 11 meters gives and takes, just like the sea. Fact is we're British and have many many years experience of learning to make the most of what we have. Thanks for the advice Jeff :thumb:
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