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| Kite PMR446 simplex repeater | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Friday, 5. July 2013, 20:31 (3,391 Views) | |
| Big Andy | Friday, 5. July 2013, 20:31 Post #1 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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H a bit of fun the last couple of weeks. Got myself a kite, a Cody box kite, a simplex repeater and set it all up through my baofeng 5r. Popped the radio and repeater into a camera pouch, clipped in a small carabiner to the bridle of the kite, and up and way it all goes. Floating the set up at about 45m I got a couple of contacts around 10miles away, one reporting a 7-9, the other 30+. On the ground I'm using a baofeng 3r on low power (1w) to talk to the repeater. I've now made a dipole mounted to the kite frame so next time there's a breeze ill be trying that out. It's all meant to be a bit of fun, I'm going to go up to 60m and see how far I can get from there. Plan B is an 11m wire antenna flown from the kite. |
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| BozAllen | Saturday, 6. July 2013, 07:56 Post #2 |
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That's a great idea Andy! Nicely done! I've sent cameras up on kites before, but never sent a radio up. To keep the kite weight down, maybe you could make a mic/speaker/ptt extension lead for the Baofeng enabling you to use the radio from the bottom! Good luck with the 11m antenna flight too!
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| -- Chris -- M0VPN -- 2E0RTS -- M6CSV -- 26CT895 | |
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| BradfordLad | Saturday, 6. July 2013, 08:39 Post #3 |
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Hi there Andy sounds a great idea ....looking forward to the 11m experiments....Do you have a YOUTUBE channel maybe you can show us the setup ? Cheers for now |
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| Big Andy | Saturday, 6. July 2013, 10:56 Post #4 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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Ok answering a few questions. No, I don't have a YouTube site, sorry. Operating via a remote wire to the radio...I've discussed this idea at length, hummed and haa'ed over it. Problem is (as far as I see it, not tried yet) static buildup in the length of wire to ground/me. Now with a kite antenna, you use a static discharge to earth, with a remote radio control I don't see how this is possible, maybe a think tank on that!! Weight isn't really an issue, once the correct position on the line is found, get it wrong and the kite nose dives, but I've found it will lift a 50m antenna line up with about 3mph winds, and the repeater radio needs about 5mph, so its not that much of an issue. A bigger kite, say 2.5m span, would have no problems whatsoever with lifting such a small load. Cost wise, I allowed myself £100 budget for this trial. The kite was £32, the repeater was about £46, I replaced the thin kite line for a heavier load line, as the original frayed alarmingly lifting the load, so another £13 for 65kg line. I already had the radios. I shall be running further tests, I now have the v dipole on the struts of the kite to try out, and obviously can go (legally) to 60m height, and height is what makes the LOS increase!! Simplex repeaters are annoying, to keep hearing your voice back all the time, but it gives a remote high platform to boost your range somewhat, and you don't need silly power levels to attain it. There is something strangely rewarding about working your signal, getting a kite up and maintaining altitude while talking to someone at a distance. It's proper old fashioned radio, experimenting, transmitting without computer aids, or apps. And it's fun, which is what all hobbies should be. |
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| Big Andy | Saturday, 13. July 2013, 13:08 Post #5 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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Well, this totally unseasonal summer weather has stymied the tests for now, no wind!!! Where I live, there always seemed to be a stiff breeze, since I started the kite experiment, the wind has dropped to nothing. Gutted! I've now made up the wire dipole for 11m in addition to the "Sky Repeater" to give me choices in what to use it for. |
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| Andydx103 | Sunday, 14. July 2013, 06:19 Post #6 |
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Thats a shame Andy, Looking forward to your tests which may be sometime as we are keeping this weather for a while yet!! |
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| Big Andy | Wednesday, 17. July 2013, 20:49 Post #7 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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Still waiting!! |
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| Big Andy | Wednesday, 24. July 2013, 15:00 Post #8 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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bored now, this summer is not playing ball. It's normally cold and blowy. Till I want to do something that relies on wind power!! In the mean time, I've put up a colinear for 446 (home made by a mate) and made up a wire dipole for 11m which will eventually be kite mounted, but in the mean time is suspended at about 22feet as an inverted V on my rotary washing line based portable mast. It's all go here I can tell ya. |
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| Andydx103 | Wednesday, 24. July 2013, 15:13 Post #9 |
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Cheers for the update.....
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| Big Andy | Monday, 29. July 2013, 17:30 Post #10 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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Woohoo!!! Wind again!! Never thought I'd be so pleased to get some. Test yestday, disaster. Keyed up, and pretty weak signal even at 150ft. Strip down, fault finding mission. Result = bad connection between battery and radio, somehow???? So put on 3800 battery, result = too much weight for the kite. Oh FFS. Put it all away in disgust. Stamp feet. Today after work, revamp time, and a rethink. Attach wire dipole for 11m, with 10m coax, do a test run without connecting to rig, up she goes, let it run up to 100ft, stiff breeze, hear a rumble in the distance so wind it all in again Rumbles pass, send it up again to operating height above imaginary radio and stabilise to maintain height. All good. Just got to set it up with radio, ground anchor and earth, and do some test transmissions. Woo hoo again While bored waiting for wind, made up wireless connection to transmit comms radios to household stereos, connected one to Bluetooth transmitter to listen thru earpiece remotely. I love tinkering
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| Riff-Raff | Thursday, 1. August 2013, 15:42 Post #11 |
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26 Charlie Tango 743
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Had some experience of this type of experimenting with the local radio club in the late 60's (showing my age) We used an old weather balloon as used for the transponders the met office used to send up, Pulling up a long wire antenna which was also the tether. Worked really well on 160/80mtrs on still evenings but watch out for static. I recon there was enough to kill most modern receivers if not dealt with carefully, not a problem at the time as most Rx where still valve based ex-mod stuff or Eddystone.
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| Big Andy | Saturday, 3. August 2013, 20:19 Post #12 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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Had a great day today. Put the kite up at around 120 ft, wind strength was ideal around 10-15mph, good ground anchor in, bungee shock absorber, sat down in the beach rolly for three hours watching the world go by. Finally got one contact about ten miles away. Seemed to be a stray ham looking for a clear frequency or something. He thought I was closer to him, as signal strength was right at the top, seemed surprised and alittle impressed when I told him I was hovering at 120feet! Shot some vid footage, just have to try and remember up how I put them onto YouTube I guess. No time at the present, off to a radio rally tomorrow in search of inspiration, gizmos and a coffee. |
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| Big Andy | Saturday, 3. August 2013, 20:36 Post #13 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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kite aloft about 120feet up, repeater just about visible just below kite. |
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| DavidUK | Sunday, 4. August 2013, 05:22 Post #14 |
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26 Charlie Tango 1083
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Hi Andy, Just had an idea.. Instead of using a simplex repeater you could put two radios in the air and have another on the ground (radio repeater). This way you wouldn't have the repeater delay and you won't have to hear the repeater... repeat you. I'll try to explain how I would get it working.. I have a BAOFENG UV-5R, and going through each step I think this would work.. It's coming up to 0630hr though (tired) so if anyone notices a mistake please flag it! Setting up the RADIO#1: (you will communicate through this radio from the ground) 1) Set the frequency (FREQ#1). You could also set CTCSS codes etc.. ** 2) Go into the menu and enable VOX (Voice Activated Transmission) **Select a frequency that you will use on the ground to talk and listen to this radio/relay. Make sure your ground radio is set to the same frequency & ctcss Setting up the RADIO#2: (this radio will transmit to and receive from your contacts then relay back to you through RADIO#1) 3) Set the frequency you want to dx on (FREQ#2). You could also set CTCSS codes etc.. 4) Go into the menu and enable VOX (Voice Activated Transmission) 5) Plug the SPEAKER OUTPUT from RADIO#1 into MIC INPUT in on RADIO#2 6) Plug the SPEAKER OUTPUT from RADIO#2 into MIC INPUT in on RADIO#1 Transmitting through the radio repeater: - You transmit on FREQ#1 from the ground - RADIO#1 with frequency set to FREQ#1 receives your transmission from ground - RADIO#1 OUTPUT feeds into RADIO#2 INPUT - RADIO#2 VOX activates transmission and transmits the OUTPUT from RADIO#1 on FREQ#2 Receiving through the radio repeater: - RADIO#2 receives transmission on FREQ#2 - RADIO#2 OUTPUT feeds into RADIO#1 INPUT - RADIO#1 VOX activates transmission and transmits the OUTPUT from RADIO#2 on FREQ#1 - You receive on FREQ#1 from the ground I think I have just typed instructions for a simple repeater !! This is definitely how I would do it though. I'm pretty sure this radio repeater would work.. but you do take up 2 channels (though when using ctcss this isn't a big issue). Also, I'm guessing 2 radios are lighter than radio + simplex repeater. Anyway just an idea for you. David P.S; I wasn't going to post this when I realised I had typed instructions for a simple repeater but I thought it... ... might be of use to someone out there!
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| Callsign: 26CT1083 | UK & EU FM | Location: Essex | Radio/Antenna: Midland Alan 42 Multi w/ 21" Albrecht Portable Antenna: Homemade Vertical Bazooka on 6m pole | |
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| Big Andy | Sunday, 4. August 2013, 06:20 Post #15 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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I'm not knocking your idea. I did try along those lines originally, in the "safety" of the shack. Problem I came across was at the Vox was unreliable, in that it would drop out and the radios couldn't "hear" each other. I then factored in the wind noise at say 100 ft, 15mph, and decided (rightly or wrongly) at wind MAY activate the Vox rendering it impractical. Finally, the repeater weighs about a third the weight of the 5r, two 5rs would be too heavy for my kite to lift comfortably. But I never say never, if I like the kite enough, I shall improve and get a bigger one, modify ideas and chuck more in the hat. It's a learning curve for me, steep at that, and I'm certainly no radio expert. Thanks for the feedback and ideas
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| DavidUK | Sunday, 4. August 2013, 07:00 Post #16 |
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26 Charlie Tango 1083
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Fair enough .. It was only after I finished typing that I realised it was a waste of time .. Hopefully it will help someone trying to figure out how to setup a repeater.The VOX on the baofeng radios is a bit .. Wind shouldn't activate the vox though because the inbuilt mic is disabled when you have one plugged in? or maybe you meant something else (half asleep!)I really do like your kite idea though. I've never actually flown a kite so I have no idea what they are capable of, but sending up a pmr/11m antenna 30+ meters does sound interesting! Though I'd hate to wait until the wind speeds were good enough, and they probably can't be flown in higher winds either? I would find that a bit frustrating! Also, jumping in at the deep end is most of the time the best way of learning. Keep experimenting and I'll keep an eye on this thread and see what you come up with (if you don't scrap the kite idea!). Anyway I'll sign off now and stop my useless posting! G'Night/G'Morning
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| Callsign: 26CT1083 | UK & EU FM | Location: Essex | Radio/Antenna: Midland Alan 42 Multi w/ 21" Albrecht Portable Antenna: Homemade Vertical Bazooka on 6m pole | |
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| Big Andy | Sunday, 4. August 2013, 17:49 Post #17 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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I think as far as the simplex repeater goes, it's the best compromise for 446, without silly and expensive. My aim was to get it airborne, and reliable to get range tests, that's basically achieved. My next goal is to focus on getting the 11m antenna sorted (well it's ready) tested and happy with the system. I have a little competition,as a friend of mine is talking of getting an advertising blimp up as an antenna "skyhook". Of course, talk is cheap, helium isnt
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| Gregory Beetle | Tuesday, 6. August 2013, 18:03 Post #18 |
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I'm loving this thread. I've used a home-made kite (two dowels and a garden waste bag) with a 40 metre wire, but not tried actually putting up a radio. Good luck! BTW, I can reiterate the warning about static. Even when there's no storms at all, the friction of wind on the kite (presumably) can give enough volts to damage a solid state rx. Make sure that you have, e.g. an ATU that is DC short (or put a neon across) so the static can leak to earth. G4J** found that to his cost, when his lovely Lowe HF-150 went deaf on certain bands (a switching diode blown) following a kite-flying expedition (his valved Codar AT5 transmitter was fine, of course).
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| Big Andy | Thursday, 15. August 2013, 18:17 Post #19 |
26 Charlie Tango 1060
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Well hello radio!!! Got the kite back up today, in it's other guise as an antenna lifter. What can I say but OMG!!! Instead of kite line, I got some leccy fencing strand stuff, cut it to 282feet, attached it to the kite and let it up. bingo, lifted lovely. So I then attached the unun at the bottom, and the static discharge connected up to an earth rod. Here's the best bit so far, SWRed in at 1.2:1 on 80m, 1.5:1 on 40m, about the same on 20m, 11m just in at 2.5:1. I can live with that, I could alter the length to suit 11m better, but I won't. Test contacts on each band to a mate around 10miles away...good enough to please me. It really is that easy, all this complicated maths...pah!! Just get it done. Really am chuffed as a really chuffed thing.
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| Andydx103 | Thursday, 15. August 2013, 18:57 Post #20 |
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Great stuff Andy,i knew you would get there in the end......
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Rumbles pass, send it up again to operating height above imaginary radio and stabilise to maintain height. All good. Just got to set it up with radio, ground anchor and earth, and do some test transmissions. Woo hoo again
IMG_20130622_00213.jpg (31.37 KB)
!! This is definitely how I would do it though. I'm pretty sure this radio repeater would work.. but you do take up 2 channels (though when using ctcss this isn't a big issue). Also, I'm guessing 2 radios are lighter than radio + simplex repeater. Anyway just an idea for you.
it...
... might be of use to someone out there!
.. It was only after I finished typing that I realised it was a waste of time
7:21 PM Jul 11