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Short Wave Listening
Topic Started: Saturday, 16. January 2010, 09:18 (3,939 Views)
Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

I wanted to work QRP on 11m & listen on HF, until I take Foundation exam

I would love to put a Good ant outside but as I say in my other posts its out of the question (even if licenced)

Plan 1 :)
Tried HomerBB,s advice & made a smaller skywave loop & put it horozontal in loft, still had problems with RX even with using an ATU, plenty Broadcast stations & some hams using silly power, (some could be classed as broadcast I heard one last night running 1KW into a beam 20m up in the air) where is the challenge in that? you see endless lists of Marine, Air & millatry it sounds GREAT but not getting any apart from Shanwick, not that there is much point in this, I haven't come across any of those number stations that used to be around ages ago, do they still use them? Ive heard various suggestions as to what they are

Plan 2 :(
After coming across this link I thought it would be worth a go

http://www.livecbradio.com/11-meter-loop-antenna.htm (How do you paste the links like "Here" or "There"Steve) :P

After trying it pinned to an outside wall in a square, all I can say is either I am in a very bad reception area or 11m is dead (which is highly unlikley) the Muppets are like what you used to call Midnight & Graveyards :D

Plan 3 :@ :@
Either use it in the car when I get Mobile so I can get to places I used to go or sack the idea of getting back into this hobby. Right now Im fairly hacked off :whistle: coffee coffee

Smokes



Edited by Smokes, Wednesday, 8. September 2010, 09:18.
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Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

MikeXray
Saturday, 4. September 2010, 09:05
.I also use a Miracle whip, these are small portable amateur QRP antennas, that make truly superb RX antennas, but are rather expensive.
.

I made one of these but cant say it worked for me dispite many Good reviews :@ mine has a 1.35m telescopic whip, (I cant get good RX with a 30 to 50ft wire in loft with an atu)

Have a look at this link, it way be of intrest to you

http://www.m0jha.com/about11.html


Good Luck


Smokes
Edited by Smokes, Wednesday, 8. September 2010, 09:23.
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VoG
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smokes
Wednesday, 8. September 2010, 08:50
(How do you paste the links like "Here" or "There"Steve)
When you're writing the reply or the Post and want to include a link:
- click on the button marked URL in the command line (see pic beliow).
- A pop-up window will open, you type (or paste) the URL weblink address in there then press the "OK" button
- Next, you'll get another pop-up window with "My Webpage" written in it. Overwrite "My WebPage" with "Here" or "There" or, better still, "LINK to Sitename"
- Click on "OK" and you're done
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Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

Thanks for that, its like a lot of things easy when you know how & used to it :)
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MikeXray
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26 Charlie Tango 245

smokes
Wednesday, 8. September 2010, 08:50
Plan 1 :)
Tried HomerBB,s advice & made a smaller skywave loop & put it horozontal in loft, still had problems with RX even with using an ATU, plenty Broadcast stations & some hams using silly power, (some could be classed as broadcast I heard one last night running 1KW into a beam 20m up in the air) where is the challenge in that? you see endless lists of Marine, Air & millatry it sounds GREAT but not getting any apart from Shanwick, not that there is much point in this, I haven't come across any of those number stations that used to be around ages ago, do they still use them? Ive heard various suggestions as to what they are

Plan 2 :(
After coming across this link I thought it would be worth a go

http://www.livecbradio.com/11-meter-loop-antenna.htm (How do you paste the links like "Here" or "There"Steve) :P

After trying it pinned to an outside wall in a square, all I can say is either I am in a very bad reception area or 11m is dead (which is highly unlikley) the Muppets are like what you used to call Midnight & Graveyards :D
Smokes



Both the antennas that you have tried are Horizontal polarisation & on local FM work, CB or amateur, you need vertical polarisation or you loose around 50% of the signal.
With utility stations, (things like air band etc,) you can spend many hours listening for one quick over. On one of my scanners, as an example, I have around 150 VHF / UHF PMR / AIR etc stations & depending upon the day & the time of day (I live close to an airport that has few evening flights & no night flights,) I can wait several hours between hits on active frequencies.
I have one scanner set up with mil air & can have it on all day & nothing, I have one scanner on simplex & beacon VHF amateur frequencies & can go days with nothing, or have hits on channel after channel...It's so variable, all you can do is listen & wait.
Have you made sure you are listening at the right times of day & on the right frequencies for numbers stations?
Radio is very like fishing. You need to be using the right kit, on the correct bank (Frequency) at the right time & still you need some luck to get the bite.

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Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

Thanks for the reply, if what you say is correct why do so many use :

G5RV, Beams & Longwires .... all running Horizontal or have I missed something somewhere along the line :)

Still I have nothing to loose experimenting, the next thing I am going to try is an inverted V & see if I get any joy with that

Smokes
Edited by Smokes, Thursday, 9. September 2010, 22:56.
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Offplanet
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26 Charlie Tango 104

The Ham operators mainly use horizontally polarised antennas, so horizontal is king for those bands (the polarisation can shift on the skip but, from my experience, I hear much better on the Ham bands on a horizontal antenna).

For CB and 11m Freeband, the vertical antenna is far more popular - for groundwave on the CB band, a horizontal will be as deaf as a post. For local CB work with a loft antenna, a DV27 on a decent groundplane will be as pretty much as good as it gets.

Perhaps pop a CB vertical in the loft, plus a 11m Inverted V and a horizontal or two for the Ham bands.

Cheers
Gary

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Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

Hi Gary

Thanks for clearing that up, maybe it was the way I read the previous post up to this.

Never made any HF loft Antennas in 20 odd yr had no reason to, the only 1 I did make was for11m band which was an 8ft Firestick with 4 ally radials + not so much of a problem back then as I could get others outside so it wasnt a case of building Baluns & playing around with bits of wires. Today is different I need a all in 1 Attic ant, for HF (RX only) & 27.555 (TX maybe but the chance of RFI problems is putting me off) (Pointless taking Foundation if I cant get somewhere near for an Attic ant) stacks of suggestions on Google & many Good tips from People on here. Fact is I cant easily get in the loft mess around than in severe pain for days afterwards so cant keep hopping in & out of the loft pulling cables this way and that, as much as I would like to

Im going try 1 last suggestion an Inverted V then if that dont work..... oh well I tried

Right now Im just going round in Circles & annoying People on here, so if your one of them Sorry to you, its not a case of being "Thick or Dence" (My background was welding, repairing crash damaged cars then 4 semesters in Cisco, until health Probs got in the way)

Thanks for a lot of suggestions & trying to help
Edited by Smokes, Friday, 10. September 2010, 07:59.
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Offplanet
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26 Charlie Tango 104

No worries, that's what the CT forum is about Smokes - in fact the more posts we get here, asking various questions, the better.

Finding something that works well in a challenging location is an issue that many stations face.

Stick with it if you can - maybe the best bet would be to get the mobile set-up sorted, so you can get some actual time on the radio and have a fiddle around with the homebase set-up over a period of time. It can be frustrating to have no working set-up, but a few decent contacts mobile would be a good tonic and fuel enthusiasm to persevere with homebase antennas.

Cheers
Gary
The CT eXtreme DX Team [imgw=50]http://b1.ifrm.com/2510/101/0/p5000422/mountain.png[/imgw]

CTX Founder Member and CTX Team Admin
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MikeXray
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26 Charlie Tango 245

smokes
Friday, 10. September 2010, 07:41
1.... it wasnt a case of building Baluns ......
2.....(Pointless taking Foundation if I cant get somewhere near for an Attic ant)
3...Right now Im just going round in Circles & annoying People on here.
Right I have edited your post into chunks I want to comment on & numbered them for my ease.
Quote 1....I have a full amateur licence & I have been playing radios for many many years. I started before CB was around, so I had to build or modify military kit. Baluns are a massive area & I don't understand as much as maybe I should about them.
I do often buy them, rather than make them, so it can be a case of plug & play. There are some cheap well made baluns around now, so I justify buying by saying it's as cheap as making :whistle: ;) .
Quote 2.....There are still lots of of amateurs around who are SWL's first & amateurs second, third or fourth. So getting a foundation licence can help you as a SWL. As not only do you get thier support, but it will also help you develop your learning as a SWL & thus get more from the hobby.
Don't forget that as a foundation licence holder you can operate other poeples equipment. Either under their licence at Intermediate or full power. You can operate club shacks, special event stations & RAYNET stations, as well as individuals equipment, so not having your own equipment will not make it pointless. You will also acquire a pool of support, most clubs for example have a member who likes fixing radios, as just one example.
So getting a foundation licence can be of a benefit even if you do not have an ideal location. Also don't forget we can operate portable, mobile & with handheld equipment. Many of us also have equipment we are happy to lend out...I for example lent someone one of my portable QRP antenna set up's (including ATU & one of my VHF handhelds,) so he & his newly licenced daughter could get on air whilst he sorted out those extra bits & pieces needed to get his FT817 on air.
3.....Going in circle's...probably, it's just what happens as you learn, but I have seen no evidence of anyone getting fed up & I don't think we are ever going to...Don't forget the only stupid question is the one you thought you needed to ask but did not, instead choosing to make an expensive mistake.
I do some training for a club I am involved with & more often than not what people think are basic & simple questions, are far from it & at times very frightening to answer. Because some answers to basic questions are anything but straightforward & most of us do not know everything, even if it is a basis fact to others.
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MikeXray
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26 Charlie Tango 245

My location now is VERY far from ideal. I have a very small garden & I live in the middle of an estate so have houses on all four sides within 50 yards of my antennas, but it's an improvement on my last location.
We use to live in a flat on a site that had a security implication & sensitive equipment on site. We had no garden, no access to the loft & the flat was checked every few months in an unannounced visit. I did have a simple & short wire up outside (for SWL.) It was not visible from 5 feet away, it was round the back near bins & NEVER used for TX. But I was still told to remove it & received a letter stating that no permission to use ANY form of antenna inside or out would EVER be given & we were also told (in writing) that if I did breech security in this manner or put their equipment at risk of EMC, then the flat & thus the job which required living on site would be at risk.
I did however still operate a SWL station from the flat by hiding wires under carpets & by carefully choosing furniture. For example I had a lovely free standing set of shelves designed for heavy workshop equipment. This had hollow legs & 3 inch thick reinforced shelves. I orientated E/W, fitted a MW (vertical) loop using the legs & shelves. I then fitted the variable capacitor into a shelf which were open at the bottom. I then worked European & American stations with it by standing the portable radio inside the loop & used inductance to feed the radio.
I had another similar shelf that had a set of modified Christmas tree lights wrapped around it's legs, this resulted in a 20 meter plus of longwire being made available to me.
I know of several amateurs who work from flats & hotels etc, so amateur or SWL, just stick with it & work around the problems.
Edited by MikeXray, Friday, 10. September 2010, 10:56.
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VoG
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MikeXray
Friday, 10. September 2010, 10:47
I was still told to remove it & received a letter stating that no permission to use ANY form of antenna inside or out would EVER be given & we were also told (in writing) that if I did breech security in this manner or put their equipment at risk of EMC...
Even without the references to "Security" one can only assume that you're talking about a Government location, as (surely) nowhere else would you find such blind and dogged adherence to mind-numbing stupidity as to initiate a total ban "inside or out" of all receiving aerials.

One assumes that the same "I ain't fick, I gotta IQ of my own" Security Gentlemen and their Management had also barred ALL televisions (terrestrial or satellite), and radios (DAB or analogue) and that all In-Car Stereo systems were stripped from vehicles, and their aerials ritually snapped, before the vehicle could enter the site? I won't even consider whether ADSL, Wi-Fi, Wireless LAN, Mobile Phones were permitted . . . . but how about a nice BT Vision set-up?

Given that we've had many and various stories of EMC from Plasma TVs, it's probably as well they were all banned. But how about "Energy Saving Light Bulbs"? We have a couple here in the house that I can clearly hear on various RX kit when they're switched on.
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Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

Offplanet
Friday, 10. September 2010, 09:21
No worries, that's what the CT forum is about Smokes - in fact the more posts we get here, asking various questions, the better.

Finding something that works well in a challenging location is an issue that many stations face.

Stick with it if you can - maybe the best bet would be to get the mobile set-up sorted, so you can get some actual time on the radio and have a fiddle around with the homebase set-up over a period of time. It can be frustrating to have no working set-up, but a few decent contacts mobile would be a good tonic and fuel enthusiasm to persevere with homebase antennas.

Cheers
Gary
Hi Gary

Joining a local Club may be my only way forward but then its a case of who would you trust (not Tweedy coat back stabber types ect) if someone was willing to come and have a look for a reasonable ££ to see what options there are, for all I know the solution could be looking at me I have looked out the back & someone with knowledge would probably be in their eliment & might be able to give some workable advice, nothing behind me apart from acres of field & a fence if not as MikeXray has said there are loads of diffrent solutions for diffrent senarios. Pity you 2 did not live a bit closer :)


Thanks For Helping

Smokes

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MikeXray
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26 Charlie Tango 245

It was the safest place I have ever broadcast from. Enforcement officers would not have found it easy to operate on site without going through "appropriate" channels & that would have resulted in everyone knowing about it.
And as for amateur radio I was never told not to use mobile or portable amateur transmitting equipment & on several occasions I did operate portable with the full knowledge & support of the site managers. But this was from a area well away from any building.
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Offplanet
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26 Charlie Tango 104

Maybe post a few photos up if you can - a picture or two might help us offer a few more suggestions.

No problem with telling the local club that you're looking for a CB set-up as well as some potential Ham ones - a good many Hams use CB for local chat. Just tell them it's for 100% legal FM CB on the 80 channels and don't mention the 27.555 and Freebanding bit ;)

If they look down their noses at you, find a different club - progressive ARC's like Dave Oggy's CB-friendly BDARC, will be more than happy to assist a fellow radio user.

Cheers
Gary
The CT eXtreme DX Team [imgw=50]http://b1.ifrm.com/2510/101/0/p5000422/mountain.png[/imgw]

CTX Founder Member and CTX Team Admin
Callsigns - 26-CTX-104, 26-CT-104, 163-CTX-104, 163-CT-104

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Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

Offplanet
Friday, 10. September 2010, 14:22
Maybe post a few photos up if you can - a picture or two might help us offer a few more suggestions.

No problem with telling the local club that you're looking for a CB set-up as well as some potential Ham ones - a good many Hams use CB for local chat. Just tell them it's for 100% legal FM CB on the 80 channels and don't mention the 27.555 and Freebanding bit ;)

If they look down their noses at you, find a different club - progressive ARC's like Dave Oggy's CB-friendly BDARC, will be more than happy to assist a fellow radio user.

Cheers
Gary
Thanks for that Gary, points noted ;) can you recommend any good clubs near Washington / Sunderland Tyne & wear?

I have just been messing around with my bits of wire & have got it a bit better :) no means brilliant but better than what I had then for some reason 1-8mhz has disapered "Dropped" off no TX or RX 9-30mhz (all ok with ATU) any idea whos the best one to ask on here or take it to someone (switched it off for 5 mins then back on again everything ok now, FTB)

Thanks
Smokes
Edited by Smokes, Friday, 10. September 2010, 19:09.
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MikeXray
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26 Charlie Tango 245

RSGB link to your local clubs
http://www.rsgb.org/local/clubinfo/clubs.php?id=4&end=5
RSGB link for your local trainers.
http://www.rsgb.org/local/examcentres/region.php?id=4
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MikeXray
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26 Charlie Tango 245

smokes
Friday, 10. September 2010, 13:54
nothing behind me apart from acres of field & a fence

Smokes

You lucky sod. A Loooooooooooooooooong wire would work nicely even if it's low. You may not be able to mount high, but with that you could certainly be optimised in wavelength.
If you can feed it via coax, something like a trapped longwire, that is a wire with tuned circuits placed along it, so it is a good match on say, 10, 20, 40, 80 & 160 meters would work well.
Look up trapped inverted L & then just think low & not up.
Have a look at the G4CFY antenna on the link below.
http://www.spectrumcomms.co.uk/G2DYM.htm
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Smokes
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26 Charlie Tango 371

Hello MikeXray

Thanks for the info much appreciated.

Out the back there probably lots of solutions & ideas, for someone who has done steath antennas, & know the score with RFI and whatever but whatever route I decide to take there are going to be problems with coax down the wall & over the fence. The less people see the better. I even thought of an inverted V on the side of the flat from the top right down to the bottom & feed coax from the inside of the roof. I have seen web pages on how to make a grasswire, some say it works others not so sure. Rather than keep giving you all a headache I think ill leave well alone for the time being, give you some peace n quiet, join a club & hopefuly sort something out that way

Appreciated
Smokes
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AllShep
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when bands are down i just punch in 5.680usb let it run its great whe it springs to life 26ct289 :
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